和许多人一样,vangelis的那曲荡气回肠的《conquest of paradise》促成了我观看此片。看完才发现影片本身质量也很不错,颇有雷德利斯科特的风格。vangelis的配乐也堪称经典,以完美的声音魅力烘托出影片气势磅礴的氛围。
影片将我们带回了1942年哥伦布发现新大陆的那个年代。整个片子的基调是对以哥伦布为代表的冒险家,乃至全人类顽强不屈,不畏强权,勇于探索未知的全部肯定。在那个黑暗的中世纪,宗教裁判所掌握着整个西方世界。他们实行恐怖愚民统治,借着上帝的名义排除异己,从中渔利,他们焚烧异教徒,夺取初夜权,惩罚所有敢于梦想的人。在那个时代,“人类”只是匍匐在“上帝”脚下,没有丝毫尊严的蝼蚁,任人宰杀还依然屈服顺从。而在这样的人群之中,如同哥伦布一般独特而别样的存在就如同夜空里的繁星,是那么令人着迷。他高声呼喊着“上帝只是一个谎言”,在宗教与世俗统治势力之间的裂缝中,用尽自己的全部生命,为全人类挣扎出了尊严和自信,因而才有了后面轰轰烈烈的“大航海时代”和“文艺复兴”,才让人类真正将所谓的“上帝“推翻并踏上一万只脚,成为了自己命运的主人。
由于是一部群像剧,本片在气势上以宏大为主,也不可避免地因缺乏细节描写遭到一些人的诟病。特别是现在这个见花落泪的时代里,有不少人竟然以一部电影“让没让他/她哭”为标准来评判其优劣,未免显得狭隘猥琐。在这里向所有热爱历史,热爱人类的影迷推荐此片,定不会让你们失望。
Paradise does not exist.天堂是虚无的。
在基督教会的谆谆教导,以及火刑架的神圣光辉照耀下,
1492年的西班牙人,生活在一个美丽的谎言里:我们的世界是人间天堂。
世界是平的,太阳绕着地球转,海洋的尽头有怪兽等候,天使守在伊甸园的门口。
这个谎言依靠着一种秩序来维持:
上帝的真理牢牢扎根于每一个角落,任何离经叛道的思想都要被剿灭。
这种秩序压抑了所有超脱的思想、进取的精神。
任何企图挑战这个秩序的人,都要接受残酷的惩罚。
对死亡的恐惧,驯服了庸庸碌碌之辈,吓倒了懦弱犬儒之徒。
却激发了梦想家和探险者的梦想。
权力可以封上人的嘴,打断人的腿,消灭人的肉体。
但是消灭不了人的梦想。
因为梦想没有边界。
人类克服了对火的恐惧,因而得到了进化。
人类克服了对海的恐惧,因而发现了新大陆。
人类克服了对权力的恐惧,因而创造了新世界。
什么也不敢去克服的人,什么也做不到。
海洋波澜壮阔,一望无际,
有的人成功到达彼岸,有的人中途沉没,
沉没在中途的,是殉道者而非失败者。
真正失败的,是那些连第一步都没有迈出的人。
那些庸碌油腻,自怨自艾,还活着却早已死了的人,
会摆出一副看透人世的姿态来,
叫嚷着:
“这个世界不会改变,人要学会适应。”
不。一切都会改变。
因为有人在努力改变一切。
这不是中国人批判了几十年的英雄史观。
因为创造世界的,
不是帝王将相,不是僧侣主教,
却也更不是伏地跪拜的奴才,和唯唯诺诺的臣民。
创造世界的,
是将不可能变为可能的实干家,
和将禁止变为允许的勇士。
海边是一个广场,中间有一柱高塔,直插云端。高塔底部,有费迪南国王和伊莎贝尔女王的雕像。高塔顶部,还有一尊立像。
这会是谁呢?连堂堂国王和女王都在那么低下的部位守护着他,难道他是上帝?
云在他身边飘荡,他全然不理,只抬头放眼,注视远方。我立即猜出来了,只能是他,哥伦布。
——余秋雨
Many people in the United States and Latin America have grown up celebrating the anniversary of Christopher Columbus's voyage, but was he an intrepid explorer who brought two worlds together or a ruthless exploiter who brought colonialism and slavery? And did he even discover America at all? It's time to put Columbus on the stand in History vs. Christopher Columbus. "Order, order in the court. Wait, am I even supposed to be at work today?" Cough "Yes, your Honor. From 1792, Columbus Day was celebrated in many parts of the United States on October 12th, the actual anniversary date. But although it was declared an official holiday in 1934, individual states aren't required to observe it. Only 23 states close public services, and more states are moving away from it completely." Cough "What a pity. In the 70s, we even moved it to the second Monday in October so people could get a nice three-day weekend, but I guess you folks just hate celebrations." "Uh, what are we celebrating again?" "Come on, Your Honor, we all learned it in school. Christopher Columbus convinced the King of Spain to send him on a mission to find a better trade route to India, not by going East over land but sailing West around the globe. Everyone said it was crazy because they still thought the world was flat, but he knew better. And when in 1492 he sailed the ocean blue, he found something better than India: a whole new continent." "What rubbish. First of all, educated people knew the world was round since Aristotle. Secondly, Columbus didn't discover anything. There were already people living here for millennia. And he wasn't even the first European to visit. The Norse had settled Newfoundland almost 500 years before." "You don't say, so how come we're not all wearing those cow helmets?" "Actually, they didn't really wear those either." Cough "Who cares what some Vikings did way back when? Those settlements didn't last, but Columbus's did. And the news he brought back to Europe spread far and wide, inspiring all the explorers and settlers who came after. Without him, none of us would be here today." "And because of him, millions of Native Americans aren't here today. Do you know what Columbus did in the colonies he founded? He took the very first natives he met prisoner and wrote in his journal about how easily he could conquer and enslave all of them." "Oh, come on. Everyone was fighting each other back then. Didn't the natives even tell Columbus about other tribes raiding and taking captives?" "Yes, but tribal warfare was sporadic and limited. It certainly didn't wipe out 90% of the population." "Hmm. Why is celebrating this Columbus so important to you, anyway?" "Your Honor, Columbus's voyage was an inspiration to struggling people all across Europe, symbolizing freedom and new beginnings. And his discovery gave our grandparents and great-grandparents the chance to come here and build better lives for their children. Don't we deserve a hero to remind everyone that our country was build on the struggles of immigrants?" "And what about the struggles of Native Americans who were nearly wiped out and forced into reservations and whose descendants still suffer from poverty and discrimination? How can you make a hero out of a man who caused so much suffering?" "That's history. You can't judge a guy in the 15th century by modern standards. People back then even thought spreading Christianity and civilization across the world was a moral duty." "Actually, he was pretty bad, even by old standards. While governing Hispaniola, he tortured and mutilated natives who didn't bring him enough gold and sold girls as young as nine into sexual slavery, and he was brutal even to the other colonists he ruled, to the point that he was removed from power and thrown in jail. When the missionary, Bartolomé de las Casas, visited the island, he wrote, 'From 1494 to 1508, over 3,000,000 people had perished from war, slavery and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this?'" "Well, I'm not sure I believe those numbers." "Say, aren't there other ways the holiday is celebrated?" "In some Latin American countries, they celebrate the same date under different names, such as Día de la Raza. In these places, it's more a celebration of the native and mixed cultures that survived through the colonial period. Some places in the U.S. have also renamed the holiday, as Native American Day or Indigenous People's Day and changed the celebrations accordingly." "So, why not just change the name if it's such a problem?" "Because it's tradition. Ordinary people need their heroes and their founding myths. Can't we just keep celebrating the way we've been doing for a century, without having to delve into all this serious research? It's not like anyone is actually celebrating genocide." "Traditions change, and the way we choose to keep them alive says a lot about our values." "Well, it looks like giving tired judges a day off isn't one of those values, anyway." Traditions and holidays are important to all cultures, but a hero in one era may become a villain in the next as our historical knowledge expands and our values evolve. And deciding what these traditions should mean today is a major part of putting history on trial.
作为电影不完美的地方有些多,但仍然是部好电影。
感触比较深的是当哥伦布被告知对岸的大陆已经被发现且距离西印度群岛只有大概一周的航程时那突然失落又不知所措表情。太可惜了。
哥伦布对贵族那句话挺好,贵族看到的文明都是哥伦布这样的梦想家实干家做的而不是只知财富和挣权的大贵族。那个大贵族本来是支持哥伦布的,但因为带来的黄金不够多和被拒绝安插自己人而变得反对和诬陷哥伦布。根据电影那个诽谤哥伦布的神官应该也是这个大贵族安排的。
这也很意思开始的时候贵族支持哥伦布,大学反对哥伦布。但哥伦布取得巨大成果后出于利益大贵族反对哥伦布,而大学又说自己始终支持探索大洋对岸的大陆。
哥伦布想尽量做个好人真难啊。贵族责怪他对原住民不够强硬,神父责怪他对异j徒太好,原住民离开他认为他不够善不够真诚,兄弟认为他束缚自己个人的追求,王室着急让他拿到更多的金子。话说也就两场国宴的钱能有那么大的成果已经很不错了贵族们真扣。
印象深的还有几句话,
电影前部时大学与贵族的对话,大意是认为哥伦布这种'自由的思想是有害的,他要是真有翅膀还不得说天堂是假的。
尾部哥伦布叫住大贵族,大意是你看到的文明都是我这样追求梦想的梦想家做的而不是你这样弄权的贵族。
(上帝)他会仅仅等你去证明给大家看?他自己选择以木匠儿子的身份现身于世界。
或许希望只存在于旅途之中
天堂和地狱都可以在人间,我们总是带着他不管走到哪。
我不该容忍他的无理。但为什么容忍?因为他并不怕我。
生活充满想象力,超出你的梦想。
虽然不太想让这篇文章变成台词摘抄,但这些话的确很好。
他们拿走了所有的东西。不是所有的。你以为我在乎?
对了,还有一点,如此精典的音乐竟然是出自本电影。给配乐点赞。
最后不解,为啥不展现哥伦布死不松口说自己发现的事新大陆,坚持认为自己发现的是印度这件事啊,多有名的一件事。
范吉利斯的主题配乐真是气势恢宏,名不虚传。片子大体上按一般历史上认定的进程进行,不过没有把侧重点放在发现之旅上,而是通过描写发现第一块大陆(其实是太平洋群岛)以及和原住民进行交流,接着进行殖民活动,但是遭遇挫败的角度,较为立体的塑造出一个人物形象。总体来说还是有可看点,稍显平淡。
当年大扑街的项目,今天重看来竟然缓缓地又有点味道。
雷公又一部被低估的片。被后世用到烂的范吉利斯的配乐就不说了,二十多年后格雷的《迷失Z城》显然是在本片基础上所构建的杰作,甚至连那个神一般的结尾感觉都是受到了这部片结尾的启发
【补標】蓝光影碟再看为了一首MV重新验证再看蓝光影碟从头到尾……今网上有人发了这首《远航》Sailing这首歌MV(用了电影画面),勾起我的重新再看的想法,其实该片从头到尾没有这首歌曲的出现,我想是音乐人自己后配的MV根据哥伦布航海的宏大主题,倒是那些在我们电视剧里的主题曲耳闻能详的不绝于耳从头到尾反复出现。不知道“引用”者在电视剧后面注明没有人家的原创版权(题外话)……——『生命比梦想更富有想象色彩』2021-7-9 蓝光影碟重新再看
在一个相信圣诞老人的时代,你要问的是:世界的东方有什么?地球的地理格局是怎样的?哪些是当时宗教禁止做的事?谁的理论主导了当时社会对世界的认知?社会对私有财产的态度是什么?当时的科学宗教和医学的状况。人们是怎么进行航行的?船上的等级制度,谁决定航行的时长?与RS他作一样肤浅。
台词考究这是肯定的,音乐有一段真是不知道是不是本剧的原创?实在太赞了,而且这个攻击异形的女帝来当女王性格实在让人大爱,平普的节奏孕育出不一样的壮举,继续废话,我觉得哥伦布是在搞科研,方向、未知……
3星半 雷公初试史诗片,其实已经很有《角斗士》的前身了,尤其是一流的视听效果,实景实物实在令人惊叹,配乐更是点睛之笔,用了Vangelis的名曲《Conquest of Paradise》担当主题乐,唯一可惜的是故事上并没乐曲这般的磅礴雄势。其实无论政治还是人性,“哥伦布”这题材能讲的东西都太多了,是完全能有更多深度的题材,但硬塞154分钟里也实在有心无力,格局过大,就连人物也仓促得更显粗糙。但当我面对那首传世的名曲时,我突然意识到,这些都已毫不重要了,在这等宏魄的律调中,影片所带来的,远远比不上听者所想象的——那些乘风破浪的船只,在那段日月逾迈的岁月里,承载着一群孤注一掷的探险家。所有的欲望与梦想,所有的热血与伟大,沸腾着,歌颂着,炽烈地闪耀令人睁不开眼睛。哥伦布是终究征服不了天堂的,但是这首曲子可以,因它就是为此存在的
被配乐撑起来的电影,整体上和一篇命题作文没什么两样。
he didn't own sth,while he built that all
老雷初试史诗片,恰好在哥伦布首次航行500周年上映。剧情略松散,且笔墨基本集中于哥伦布发现大陆后的治理,讲他如何平定内乱和获取资源,以及这些活动对原住民的影响;相较而言旅途艰险并没有得到太多的渲染(哥伦布几句话的演讲就让信心动摇的船员团结一致了),但看到首次航行中雾中缓缓现出真容的陆地我还是被触动了一下。电影着重表现出了哥伦布理想主义者的一面,他以发现新世界,建设文明为荣,带着一种近乎偏执的狂热,但总体态度还是褒大于贬的。对欧洲中世纪风貌的还原做得还行,精美服装衬得《异形》中以中性面貌示人的西格尼·韦弗异常艳丽。而范吉利斯的配乐恢弘而大气(尤其是那首经典的《Conquest of Paradise》,听得人想马上收拾行李踏上未知的征程),有时间要听这部的OST。
2012-282.重看,三星半。音乐太熟悉了…
原来那么多牛逼的音乐都来自于这部影片!虽然剧情。。。
with樂 SEP; 配樂超棒,好多耳熟的音樂都出自這裡;感覺美化了侵略史
new world, not better world for him.
1.雷德利的选角都是成功的 2.影片的故事人物和背景太重,导致结构松散不紧凑 3.想说的太多 4.Vangelis 应该不会想到他雄壮的航海配乐会广泛用于中国各大传销年会 5.Sigourney Weaver 真女王气场 6.点赞表白服装化妆,请收下膝盖
8.5「All created by people like me,no matter how long you live,one thing will never change between us—I did it,you didn’t.」;很多年前朋友推荐过这部作品的原声给身处泥潭中的我 我也因此从中获取了力量 数年后伴随熟悉的原声观看这部作品 虽然将她定位为诗史略觉夸大 但影片中的那股勇气与坚韧在我看来永远是渺小的人类通往壮丽辉煌的大路的指向灯;没有这一步的尝试 恐怕雷公也没有日后的角斗士和天国王朝这样的不朽之作。
场面浩大,服化道赏心悦目,老雷的击剑情结也得到了再现,结尾带有一种童话般的纯真气质
155分钟的长片讲述一个"人所共知"的故事,五百年前的壮举不过如此?
是梦想家也是实干者 雾散露出海岛的一幕实在是感人 在海上漂了这么久更知道脚下土地的坚实 群岛和大陆 只差一个多星期的航程啊 idealism and ambition are not incompatible.riches don't make a man rich,they only make him busier. nothing that results from human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. 画面对比反差似乎不大 两个孩子都长得很清秀啊
想知道莱德利斯科特对此类题材的偏爱与执着从何而来……