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是谁在与民主为敌

记录片英国2007

主演:约翰·皮尔格

导演:Christopher Martin约翰·皮尔格

播放地址

剧照

是谁在与民主为敌 剧照 NO.1 是谁在与民主为敌 剧照 NO.2
更新时间:2023-09-16 11:10

详细剧情

  这部纪录片是屡屡获奖的导演约翰·皮尔格的新作。[约翰·皮尔格成长於澳洲悉尼,目前定居英国伦敦。他是一位优秀的战地记者、作家与制片家,两度获颁英国新闻界最高荣誉“年度记者”。皮尔格足迹遍及世界各地,最受肯定的报导作品发自柬埔寨(收录于《别对我撒谎》一书)与越南。皮尔格曾荣膺“年度国际记者”与“联合国媒体和平奖”。他的纪录片得过法国“无国界记者”大奖、艾美奖,以及英国电影电视艺术学院颁发的“理查丁伯比奖”。皮尔格三十年来锲而不舍地揭露世事真相、奔走倡导人权,在2003年获颁“苏菲奖”。译者注]本片认为,美国非但没有像声称的那样要给全世界带来民主,反而正竭尽所能地想要扼杀它。  影片单独与美国政府官员进行对话,包括一些特工,他们首次在影片中披露上世纪80年代CIA是如何在拉丁美洲挑起战争的。Pilger认为,真正的大众的民主其实更有可能存在于拉丁美洲的穷乡僻壤间,那儿穷苦人民的民主运动经常被西方忽略了。

长篇影评

1 ) 应该把这人送到朝鲜去

我承认,我亲美,这可能是我看了一半就删除了该片的一部分原因。但我更愿意相信删除它是因为我那略微比普通人多了那么一点点的传播学知识。

一般都认为电视新闻的可信度要比文字高,因为它能还原现场的视觉、听觉。而文字就如语言,可以随便瞎说,可以随便篡改。

但其实电视节目并无二致,也是一种符号的言说。只不过语言用词汇、句子构成意思,电视用则是用视觉片段加上剪辑。

正是因为电视也是可以剪辑的,事实当然也就是可以被改写的。经过剪辑,不好的可以变得没那么不好,甚至还可以直接变成好的。当然更加干脆的方法则是不报,报喜不报忧,《新闻联播》就是最好的例证。

还有一个关键概念,就是语境。这个就不多说了,简单来说就是去医院检查身体时提供的大便和平时你拉的大便虽然同为大便,但他们又并不都是同样的大便的意思。

我还记得这个片子中让我比较鄙视的东西:
1、“查韦斯上台后,全民公决了宪法。”
查韦斯真牛逼,一上台就能让人改变宪法。如果布什上台后能全民公决宪法,直接把“既然是United States of America,Latin America也要是美国的一部分”写入宪法,那委内瑞拉早就变成联邦中的一个state了。

2、一段反对查韦斯的示威者的镜头,示威者的表情被放大到整个屏幕。
没有字幕,我不知道镜头中的反查者们都说了什么。不过这反倒更让我注意到了制作方的别有用心。他们用了一个不是学影视的人都不知道的技巧:人的脸不能占满屏幕,要不然会显得突兀、丑陋。那些示威者们,也都是普通老百姓,只不过是持有不同政见,代表着不同的利益罢了,你凭什么那样丑化他们的形象?我相信制作者选取的也是一些不很理智的意见,可他们能说出那样的话,正因为他们也是普通老百姓。他们的诉求,就不民主了?

3、对政变的解释采用了查韦斯的“绑架”版。
查韦斯说他被绑架了,别人不让他说话,是其他人密谋策划了他辞职的假象以欺骗群众。依我看这个事情双方各有各的理,谁都说不清楚。当时小查可能真的以为大势已去,已经辞职了也不一定呢。真是可怜了那个女环境部长,她可能也是被蒙在鼓里的。看周围人的反应也应该知道,政要们对查韦斯的下台的消息已经没有什么疑惑了,他们只是点头,散开。拍这个片子的英国人真该死,一个劲地说是阴谋,根本没想过为那个女部长澄清。

最后小查说自己是被绑架了,从来都没有说过要辞职的说法之所以能被接收,搞惯政治斗争的中国人应该最能理解。

值得一提的是,虽然制作者口口声声说军队试图推翻查维斯,并以武力绑架了他,不过最后查韦斯的重新上位不也是所谓的总护卫队以武力威慑达到的么?狗咬狗,一嘴毛,你个英国佬在里面掺和什么。

4、英国佬质问美国某基金支持反查势力时的态度。
天啊,我从来没见过如此傲慢的记者。即便是华莱士采访塔利班的时候也只是抱着怀疑的态度。你可以不信,你可以反对,但你不可以把头昂过去斜眼不听,这是对人的起码尊重,更是记者应有的起码职业状态。同样受到了不公正对待的还有那个有钱人,别人有钱怎么着了?别人的钱现在是没有变少,但查的那些能够凌驾于法律之上的政策加大了别人的风险。只要是人都是趋利避害的吧?别人移民迈阿密怎么了,你喜欢别人从你口袋里掏钱?别人好心请你进屋,你却说别人坏话,这也太不厚道了吧?这英国佬可真“没道德”。

5、公布所谓的对反查势力的资助时,忽略对资金的介绍,忽略受资助的对象,一笔带过。到最后我都不知道那个基金是国有的还是私人的,而且那个基金只是基金,并不代表国家意愿吧?怎么能随便把帽子往美国头上扣呢?

其他被忽略了重要信息的还有很多,例如什么banana country的moderate的land reform,land reform有多moderate或者violent,根本一点没说嘛。

你们这些英国共产主义者们还真是站着说话不腰疼。先别说什么democracy之类的东西,先给我回答一个问题:民主就一定是穷人从有钱人口袋里掏钱的均富运动么!?

用在别处看到的一句话作结吧:你们这些人的脑垂体嵌入五角星了啊!?

2 ) 只针对楼主张贴出的纪录片介绍进行的评论

在我看过的所有关于这部纪录片的评论或观后感或主流介绍里,你这位楼主的“介绍”是最暧昧的了,完全剥离了这部纪录片最为重要而且主要的思想表达,取而代之的是些虚无缥缈无关痛痒的模糊性文字,根本无法让观看者迅速理解此片的主旨,我不明白你为什么这么干,所有关于本片所阐述的关于“民主”的和“美国的民主以及美国对待其他国家民主的方式”等介绍都被你“删除了”,嗨,怎么能这么干呢?

3 ) “已经很久了,但我知道,变革终将到来。”

占满山头的贫民窟在地图上被标注为绿地。
美国干扰智利、委内瑞拉等国的民主,只为了自己的石油利益。
美国支持拉美国家的独裁统治。
智利很多人相信最好还是闭嘴。“我们不属于一个民主国家,因为民主一词被人滥用了。它的含义并不被人理解”
玻利维亚的一个前总统贱卖国家自然资源给美国,民众反抗,赶走了他。2005年选出了一位土著民总统。
“已经很久了,但我知道,变革终将到来。”

4 ) 推荐理由

本文首次发表是09年2月左右,刚才在看开卷八分钟的时候想到的自己写的评论,就过来看看,结果发现豆瓣在没有任何理由和通知的情况下将我的评论删掉,在此不再表述心中的情绪,只将评论再帖一次。

给了四星,但不是为这部纪录片说话,说的是片子背后体现的一些东西。
片子07年完成,当时的查韦斯还是个红衣主教一样的人物,把玻利瓦尔当作上师来遵循,他的理念崇高、理想、看起来正确。但就是这么一个人,在去年还是今年年初的红衣主教通过一系列的手段,就像片中说道前政府和‘皮诺切特’那样,修改了条款,改选更张,让自己成为了大帝一样的人物。
在少数几篇评价此片的口吻中,更多的是对美式民主梦的嘲讽和不屑,就像皆露了帝国主义的遮羞布一样的激动。可回过头来,这个标杆是谁确立起来的呢,一个民主的美国——一个对外输出民主思想和暴力的国家,大多数的人都本能的去反对这种态度,一个虚伪的国家,但他的实质谁又看清楚了。在我的主观臆断里,美国是一个宗教集权和专治的国家,它是个总统宣誓手按圣经的国家、一个用美元就要记牢‘我们相信上帝’的国家、一个不许有镰刀斧头团体的国家、一个在国际记者组织中民主与政府廉洁程度不比天朝强到哪的国家,它不配是,也不应该做为‘民主’的替罪羊被鞭尸,美国就是美国,美国和民主是两回事。
但即使不能当作替罪羊,美国宪法仍然在一定程度上保证了你有追求民主的自由,允许你追寻梦想的脚步,把查韦斯看成格瓦拉,也许过了几年之后这些制片人会说‘当时我们被他感人的言语迷惑了、感动了’可谁不是呢?听希特勒的人,听斯大林的人,听某某西的人,在冲动和理想的感召下,谁顾得上做出平静的选择,更有谁能把自己的选择强加于人,试图去理解少数人的选择,让他们拥有自己的选择我觉得才是民主的真谛,美国还是智利都不能代表这个词。
虽然充满可笑,可当有机会10年后重温这部纪录片的时候,一定是非常有趣的事情,就像我们现在再去读那些1945年前的《新华日报》一样有趣和富有黑色幽默。
牢记一点:民主是种理念,作用还要看掌握这种理念的人群。说别人都是白扯,看看自己才是正经事。

5 ) 很意识形态,简直可作为我国官方的宣传片

也算做到极致了,其中的思想观点与我国官方的观点,就是初高中教科书上写的那些东西,非常类似。
美国人自己的评论是,这个制作人的特点就是用事实伪装观点,甚至用观点代替事实。
建议教育部可组织学生观看这部纪录片

6 ) just to learn by what they said

The War On Democracy

Guatemala is going to enter a new era
In which there will be prosperity for the people,
together with liberty for the people.

The question is, why are we supporting El Salvador?
No, the question was, why are we killing priests in El Slvardo?
The answer is, we're not, now, you be quiet.
Prisident Christiani is trying to do a job for democracy
and the lelf-wing guerrillas must not take over El Salvador.

(George W Bush) America will not impose our own style of governement on the unwilling,
our goal instead is to help others to find their own voice,
attain their own freedom, and make their own way.

This film is about the struggle of people to free themelves,
from a morden form of slavery.
Richard Nixon, president of the United States,
once said of Latin America,"People don't give a shit about the place,"
He was wrong,
The grand design of the United States as a morden empire,
was drawn on the hopes of an entire continent
known contemptously as "the back yard"
The extraordinary witnesses in this film
describe a world not as American presidents like to see it,
as useful or expendable,
they describe the power of courage and humanity,
among people with next to noghing.
They reclaim noble words like democracy, freedom, liberation, justice,
and in doing so, they're definding the most basic human rights of all of us
in a war being waged against all of us.



THE WAR ON DEMOCRACY
A FILM BY JOHN PILGER


This is Caracas, capital of Venezuela
one of the richest countries in Latin America
thanks to huge deposits of oil
The rich in Venezuela live in leafy suburbs
with names like Country Club
Their spiritual homes are Miami and Washington

The majority live in what are known as barrios
on hillsides in breeze-block houses that defy gravity
In the past these people had been invisible-
excluded from their own soceity
Today they display the confidence of those
who know an extraordinary change has come to their lives

This is Hugo Chavez president of Venezuela the voice of the barrios
Chavez and his supporters have won ten elections in eight years
(cheering)
He's the symbol of an awakening of people powerdriven by great popular movenments that are unique to Latin America

The days of the old bosses and barons are over,That false, elite democracy is over in Venezuela,


It's no surprise that Chavez, with the help of an aggressive media coverage
has become a hate figure in the United States
because what he represents is another way
and a threat to Amecrican domination

(# Rock music)
……

(Speaking Spanish)
……

-Let me ask about you, personally,
I mean, travelling with you for the last couple of days,
I've seen a man who's clearly deeply committed
to what you want for the Venezuelan people,
Could you describe where that came from?
-I was born in a very poor home,a peasant home, so I experienced poverty,
I was a poor child, barefoot,
My father was a teacher at a rural school, and my mother too,
I had a beautiful grandmother, She was Indian, She filled me with love,
My grandmother taught me a lot,
and I learned from her about solidarity with other people,
about sharing the bread even when there's little to eat,
Later,I went into the army, the military academy, and I became a soldier,
And there I found out about Bolivar and started to realise what the truth was,

Simon Bolivar is venerated in Latin America
as the liberator from Spanish colonialism
Bolivar believed that freedom only came
when people united against all invaders no matter their disguise

Today the people of Latin America are again rising up
against an empire built on an extreme form of capitalism
know as the Washington Consensus
Whole countries have been privatized put up for sale
their natural wealth sold to foreign companies, for peanuts
In Venezuela they said "No more"

This is La Vega a barrio of a million people
Mariela Machadoo has lived here most of her life
She knows what it's like to be excluded in her own country

I can give you a very specific example on the maps,
All these hills and houses did not figure-they were shown as green spaces,
That was before Chavez's government,
Before Chavez, we did not feel a part of this society.

This is called a mission
It's a kind of parellel government
designed to bypass the old bureaucracy
and deliver real benefits to ordinary people
This is raw democracy- a triumph of the grass roots

Today they're discussing the dream of owning their own homes for the first time

We don't want the deeds just for their own sake,
More important the deeds themselves
is that we own the property in order to develop our cities,
and obtain the rights that have been denied us for so long,
This is the most important thing,
This is not a matter of getting the deeds and saying,"I'm sorted now, I can go,"
and stop coming to the parish assemblies,
because after the deeds, there are better things to come,
Like the development of our barrios.

Soon after Chavez was elected in 1999 Venezuelans voted on a constitutiong
and this little blue book has become a bestseller ever since


This is one of a chain of supermarkets set up in the barrios
funded by proceeds of oil
Here prices are kept low
and on the back of every rice and soap powder packet
are printed people's rights under the constitution

-Does it really mean somthing to you to see it there?
-Of course, because I didn't know we had rights like everyone else,
but this one, article 23,
tells us about national politics, and this makes us feel included.

Democracy, as I said recently, before our people,
as Lincoln said, has a simple definition- the difficulty is making it a reality,
We are making it a reality-
government of people, by the people and for the people,
A society where people are included and equal, where there is no exclusion,
there is no poverty, where human values reign.

For some of his supporters Chavez has not gone far enough
Familiar obstacles remain from the past
a stifling bureaucracy and widespread corruption
And although poverty has fallen dramatically in recent years, it's far from eradicated

-When you drive in from the airport and Caracas,
the one thing that shocks a first-visitor
are the barrios, the numbers of poor people,
Why is it, in Venezuela, which earns so many billions of dollars in oil money,
that there still is this poverty, in spite of all the changes you've made?
-The poor of Venezuela carry on being poor, yes,
I always say that we don't want to be rich, our aim is not material wealth,
It is to live with dignity, of course to come out of poverty,
and to come out of extreme poverty above all,
and to live, to live with dignity, this is the objective,
not to become millionaires, the Amecrican way of life, no that is stupid.
I'm teling you this because the issue of poverty affects us deeply,
It's most of our daliy struggle.

……
to be continued..

7 ) trivial,但是可以想到其他

民主是美国精神的基石,不民主类同违宪,乃会导致社会秩序的崩溃。但利益维护本质上就没有民主的因子,毋庸说国家或阶级之间,长短期利弊也无法以民主的角度考查政策优劣。所以美国的行径和其民主之教旨在根子上就有built-in的inconsistency。攻击这一点是trivial、毫无用处的,但可以指出的是它在达到手段的目的上都往往没有哪怕表面上符合其教旨,这就很让人对其文明感到失望了。暴力解决、矛盾表面化和激怒原本可以用一点甜头就平息的弱势群体、以及执行过程中缺乏对己方违宪行为的严格监管,这些做法都显得naive,二十世纪的美国还这么naive,也难怪中国了。

短评

深思

7分钟前
  • Lo
  • 推荐

3月28號john pilger要在墨爾本的marxist conference裏面作報告, 早已買好票. 非常期待! democracy belongs to the street, the barrios, the fields and the minds of people.

8分钟前
  • 亂室佳人
  • 力荐

没有太多新的东西。倒是能看到媒体与官方口径的合作是美国长期使用的策略。第一次知道委内瑞拉比中国要政治开明……

13分钟前
  • 老常
  • 还行

“民主”真是一个被用烂了的词,如果民主的“民”真的包括了贫穷的大多数的话,那么美国才是民主最大的敌人

16分钟前
  • Howe
  • 力荐

看完这部电影,就别再跟我扯什么普世价值观了

20分钟前
  • alexmaoist
  • 还行

This piece of art shows spirit of another respectful and responsible journalist in our current time.

24分钟前
  • 辉夜姬
  • 力荐

民主不是完美的

26分钟前
  • 蜗牛
  • 推荐

民主即我主。呵呵后。

29分钟前
  • 怎会
  • 推荐

凶手就是你,真相只有一个

31分钟前
  • tongzhou930
  • 力荐

美国也并非一片圣地...

32分钟前
  • Kashing
  • 推荐

第一次看部记录片看到声泪俱下!仿佛置身于黑暗的中世纪~~

34分钟前
  • 桃喜
  • 力荐

日光之下,并无新事。

35分钟前
  • Rinn
  • 推荐

national security my axx

37分钟前
  • sabretooth
  • 力荐

还好是英国人拍的 否则肯定有人上来就说全是瞎编的

39分钟前
  • 青青
  • 力荐

自己的权利要自己去争取,不要等到强权者掠夺走后才开始悔恨。

42分钟前
  • 行走的鸡血
  • 力荐

看完这个片子 再回头看看中国 古巴 我们走过来真不容易

44分钟前
  • 蛮子
  • 推荐

1 作为纪录片本身来说有点怂 2 每每听到这片中阿连德总统的最后一段录音 我都有点想哭的冲动 3 记得波拉尼奥的《荒野侦探》里那个委内瑞拉的老作家对两个年轻人说了什么么? “我是一个托派分子 蒂娜赫罗她也是” 然后贝拉诺和利马又去拿了一瓶新酒

46分钟前
  • INsomnia
  • 推荐

里面有阿连德自杀前的广播讲话

48分钟前
  • 袁长庚
  • 力荐

看得我感动啊,震撼啊!!媒体确实信不得

53分钟前
  • jan_wl
  • 力荐

同样一面倒的电影。既然不同意,不看得了,这显然是强盗逻辑。那么不妨这么看,既然同意,干嘛不在里面找支持的例证,既然不同意,何不在里面找反例?只是前提需要抛弃脑中固有的偏见,这很难,但并没有难到比铁杵磨成针的地步

56分钟前
  • 稔之
  • 推荐

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